Our latest writing, Election 2012: A Different Point of View, has spurred some very interesting questions and many “Amen’s!” Here are a couple of attempts by Pastor Mark Holick and Ante Pavkovic to further clarify and rightly divide, through the grid of Scripture, what God is doing in our nation today and what He would have us do.
Remember, we will serve the Kingdom we see (John 5:19-20), and become like the god we worship (Jeremiah 2:5). What is God doing in our nation today, and what is He asking us, as His children, to do? ~ Flip
Here is Ante Pavkovic’s write-up:
The Election – Is Voting for Romney a Sin?
After much contemplation about Mitt Romney, I have submitted my thoughts about this election to Flip. I will try to be as brief and clear as possible.
Is it Biblical and proper to say that since Mitt Romney is a Mormon, we should not vote for him…no matter what? Is it proper not to vote for a man who clearly loves this country, our Constitution, way of life, freedoms, and free enterprise system… because of his religious beliefs?
Saints, may I also ask you that say with morbidity that voting for Romney is wrong—why? What is he going to do to us? What evil is he going to do against the United States and our Constitution?
So far, I have not heard good answers from people I have asked.
But let me tell you what Obama intends to do:
Since he is a communist, since he follows the RULES FOR RADICALS written by that wicked man Saul Alinsky many years ago, a book dedicated to Lucifer, we can be sure that Obama and all those with him intend to conquer the United States and overthrow our form of government WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT. How so? Well the plan is; when they are in power, to deliberately do things to cause prolonged suffering and chaos so that the people will finally say they have had enough, and will go along with whoever promises them a better future.
For example, we are warned over and over that early next year, we are going to go over the fiscal cliff. Why? Well the Bush tax cuts will expire, thereby immediately significantly raising taxes on everyone. A number of others serious cuts will take place because Congress hasn’t passed a budget AGAIN! And Obamacare will begin to kick in, which is yet another massive tax hike and illegal overthrow of the Constitution.
This will create far more chaos and suffering than the last 4 years, if you can believe it. What is coming is FAR WORSE. This is all part of the plan. So when we have suffered a good bit under this destruction that has come, Obama-the-Marxist-Traitor-Who-Belongs-in-Jail will speak to the nation and say something like this:
He will say that our Constitution was a great document that has served us well for centuries. And I’m sure he will wax eloquent about it and about our history as he reads from the teleprompter. And then he will tell us that things have changed. The world has changed. The Constitution has served us well all this time, but it is time for a change. It doesn’t work anymore. In order to go “Forward”(his Marxist slogan), we need to “change” our government to better serve our people and the world. And this con-job, this pack of lies, will work simply because economic suffering gets old, and people WILL SELL OUT IF THEY SUFFER LONG ENOUGH, especially dumbed-down, selfish, hedonistic and godless Americans that the Left has created via the Public School System, Hellavision, and now the internet, iPhones, IPads, videogames, etc. All these idols have not only mesmerized the nation, but are often nothing but items with which people corrupt themselves with sinful entertainment and filth. The plan is working. They have debased this nation, brainwashed us, distracted us, made us ignorant, silly, selfish, and idolaters.
Such a nation is ripe for a communist overthrow without a shot being fired. That is the plan. They wrote of it decades ago and have implemented it.
So then, do we let Obama get re-elected when we know it will mean THE END OF THE UNITED STATES AS WE KNOW IT? How moral and righteous is it to allow such an evil to take place?
You see, one thing I know is that Mitt Romney won’t do that, and wants the opposite to happen.
Did not God call Cyrus, a pagan King “Mine anointed” in Isaiah 45:1? Was he not used by God to help the Jews back to their land and to rebuild the Temple? Yes. Has not God used pagans to further his purposes? Is it not truly God’s wisdom to REBUKE THE CHURCH IN AMERICA by giving us a reprieve from Obama through a Mormon, and not a solid Christian man? Should we not be grateful God would even grant us a reprieve from Obama, and be humbled that the reprieve comes in the form of a man and a religion whose image and good family lives in America have outdone our own?
Mitt may be the answer to our prayer to deliver us from evil, but it may also be a rebuke to us, because we, just like Israel should not be in a position of needing the help of a pagan king to do the right thing. Israel was in bondage because of generations of sin and idolatry. That was not God’s will or plan. We are in the state we are in because of our sin and idolatry, and we ought not to have a devil like Obama in the White House, nor should we need the help of a Mormon to grant a reprieve.
If you are expecting a Christian leader, from whom we will have trickle-down-righteousness and a return to the Constitution, FORGET IT. We don’t deserve that, and that is not how it will work anyway. What we need are leaders who will ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION, LEAVE US ALONE so that we can live and do what we are supposed to do. Paul said to pray for leaders so that WE could lead quiet and peaceable lives-1Tim 2:1-4. It is for our benefit.
Our Founders envisioned that—men that would abide by the law and LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE. Is Romney such a man? If He is, then WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Some of you have voted, and would vote for Catholics, who are every bit the idolatrous, paganized, another-gospel-false religion that Mormonism is, except that Rome has murdered hundreds of thousands of our brethren over the centuries, whereas Mormons have not. How do you justify such hypocrisy?
May I also ask, if our selections were Adolf Hitler and the Nazi power taking over, or Romney, would you still say you won’t vote for an America-loving, Constitution-loving Mormon and let Hitler take over?
My example is not extreme. Obama thinks babies that survive abortions should be left for dead, or another doctor should come in and finish the job. Three times as Senator this wicked man opposed legislation that would demand life-saving care to these little ones. HOW IS HE NOT AS EVIL AS HITLER??? Hitler hated homosexuals and had a number of them murdered, but Obama promotes their sin and wants to OVERTHROW the institution of marriage as well! Who is really more malignant? Who defies God and His created order of things more?
Where I am with all of this is that Romney will win. I have been telling people for many months that Obama will lose. His arrogance is a stench in the nostrils of God. Yes Obama is a judgment of God upon us. The Assyrian, Sennacherib was a judgment from God upon Israel, but he was so arrogant and merciless, that the Lord then judged him and removed him. I believe Obama is an Isaiah 10 scenario, where he and all those with him are an affront to God. I have reminded the Lord of this in my prayers over and over and plead for mercy upon us.
Romney will be a reprieve from heaven and an answer to our prayers, BUT HE IS A REBUKE TO THE CHURCH. If the church won’t be the church in America, if we won’t be salt and light, then He might just give it to the Mormons! If we don’t care about the unborn, and do what we must to end abortion, then how can we complain if God gives us mercy in a form that is also a rebuke???
I can promise you that God will be watching His people during Romney’s presidency. Things will get better. Will the church, with our freedoms sustained awhile longer, BE THE CHURCH AND GO AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT? Or will we go right back to sleep, right back to sin, right back to all our technological idols and time-wasters, rather than prayer, fasting, self-denial, our daily cross, evangelism, discipleship and pro-life work?
My friends, Obama must lose and will lose. Don’t be confused. Romney loves our country, will try to do good, but THE CHURCH is the conscience of our nation, and we better BE the church during his presidency or someone worse than Obama may come. Also, with the Tea party rising and the overthrow of not only many democrats, but moderate republicans from office in 2010, we must CONTINUE to see this as an opportunity to clean up the republican party and get our kind of people into office. We can still do this, and there has been a groundswell of support for better candidates than what we have been forced to accept from the Republican Party. Things are changing. We have worthy men waiting in the wings for 2016 and 2020, should the Lord tarry and sustain us until then.
Lastly and ultimately, our kingdom is not of this world. Righteousness will fully come when our Lord comes in glory and establishes His Kingdom in Jerusalem, as promised. The grace of God teaches us to LOOK FOR, LONG FOR AND BE READY FOR CHRIST’S GLORIOUS APPEARING-Titus 2:11-13. Don’t let your hearts be too settled here. This world will pass away. Our Lord’s return draws near. That is what I truly long for, groan for, and pray for. Until then let us occupy til He comes. Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus!
And here is Pastor Mark Holick’s:
Re: Upcoming Election: A Different View – (Attempt at some clarification)
Hello Saints of the Lord,
Godspeed to you. Recently Flip; with Rusty’s help sent the message: A Different Point of View. This teaching is significantly new and different from what our views in these areas have been in recent years. It has raised some questions for a number of us, in particular with respect to the teaching that to vote for the lesser of two evils is evil.
I am going to make an “attempt” at some clarification. This clarification is not a suggestion that I or anyone else accepts this view. The ideas are being put forth as an explanation on the “new” position.
Position: Jeremiah 29:7 (NIV) that we should - Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.”
Current Position: most of us have been using – A vote for the lesser of two evils is still evil.
New Position: We vote for the candidate(s) that we believe will most likely contribute to the “peace and prosperity” ofAmerica. This would include voting for a candidate that has a reasonable chance to win, (even if they are evil, i.e., Islamist/Socialist or Cultist/Mormon).
In order for one to be able to understand the new position, there are a few foundational beliefs that would need to be understood. Stated another way, these would need to be beliefs that one holds as currently relevant and true for us in America today. Most of these have to do with our current situation in America and where we are spiritually right now. I will not take time to establish those beliefs in this writing but if you would like to look into further explanation see Rusty Thomas’ writing, A Different Point of View.
1. America is currently under the judgment of the Lord
2. That neither America or the Church in America as a whole are repentant for the sins of our nation: the shedding of innocent blood, abortion/homicide, idolatry, Islam, homosexuality, etc.
3. America has already been carried away captive into Babylon
4. That the timing of Jeremiah 29 is applicable to America today
The Lesser Of Two Evils (LOTE) – If one is to accept the new position then what does that mean with the “lesser of two evils” teaching most of us have been operating with of late?
1. Is (LOTE) still true? Is (LOTE) now wrong?
2. Is this “new” teaching only true if in “Babylon?”
3. Why the change now?
The belief that the (LOTE) is still evil would still be true, but with this caveat, things are handled differently in some cases (i.e. possibly voting) when you are living inBabylonthen when you are living in Jerusalem/Christian America.
Some of our best examples are Daniel, who helped the pagan king with visions; Mordeci, who foiled an assassination plot against the king; Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and Ezra, who were employees of the pagan state. Yet all of them also had to stand up for justice or righteousness when the state was acting unjustly or unrighteously. In other words they did both. They could work towards the “peace and prosperity” of Babylon but they also fought injustice when necessary. They did not attempt to start a revolution against the pagan state; they worked within it as much as they possibly could.
Likely, one would argue that voting for an Islamist or Mormon is itself an unrighteous act. Maybe, or maybe since they are the only ones with a chance of winning, if we are in Babylon, then we should vote for the one most likely to allow the propagation of the Gospel so that the much needed repentance can come? You decide.
As to when the change occurred, (if it has), I don’t know. Was it 911, choice between an Islamist or Mormon for President, rise of Islam in America, Roe v. Wade, prayer and Bible forbidden in schools, or some other moment, or – are we not there yet? I don’t know. This is a decision that each of us will have to make on our own, particularly in relation to this new position.
In addition, I am sure all of us can relate that sometimes it takes certain truths time to “sink in.” Of course most any idea that is a paradigm shift from what we previously held will take some time.
With respect to this “new” teaching, does it only apply while inBabylon? Yes, that would be correct.
As a nation is blessed, the Lord’s people will be blessed, thus the opportunities for the Gospel to be preached are enhanced and the chance for repentance is heightened.
One final note: There is no doubt that if this teaching is true, that there would then be many other broader applications to the way we live and function as Christians. Also, there would be many other questions in other areas that this would give rise to. In order to keep this short I have made no attempt in this writing to address them, though they no doubt exist.
Pastor Mark E. Holick
Spirit One Christian Ministries